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» Discussion Forums » Reading Topic
» Youth Soccer Discussions » Cup Competition Discussion » Movement away from CYSA State Cup << Older Newer >>
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soccer doctor December 08th, 2008 05:31 GMT Print this post
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Topics: 5
Replies: 183
Post: #29495
PT: #11/24



Boca's U11's down only play US Club.  The current U12's played CYSA this year for the first time but have still opted NOT to play State Cup (at least the boys).  The best news is that next years U11's will continue to play 8-v-8 in NorCal.  Things are changing and the clubs are slowly leaving CYSA.  It's a much harder sell for the olders but it is coming.  See NorCal's website for the latest exciting developments.
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fanoffutbal March 05th, 2010 01:39 GMT Print this post
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Topics: 4
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Post: #36085
PT: #12/24




Quoted from: Lurker, December 05th, 2008 17:12  GMT
There has been an interesting development this year in the CYSA State Cup that has pretty much been under everybody's radar. Over all team numbers for the younger age groups are down compared to last year. For U12 and U13 age groups (boys and girls) there isn't a big difference. For the U11 age group, the decrease in the number of teams is significant. Here is how this year's and last year's numbers look

GU11

2008 - 56
2009 - 16
2010 - 10

BU11

2008 - 63
2009 - 32
2010 - 13

GU12

2008 - 62
2009 - 55
2010 - 24

BU12

2008 - 59
2009 - 56
2010 - 31

GU13

2008 - 71
2009 - 60
2010 - 52

BU13

2008 - 64
2009 - 60
2010 - 54


I took the liberty of adding in the 2010 information for the U11 - U13 from Lurkers first post in 2008.   Still a decline.  
 
Looking at the list of teams, some played both NorCal and CYSA. It was inferred that CYSA was just "B" teams, but looking at the winners, many are the top ranked teams and several top 5 teams in Northern CA.  


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psyclone March 05th, 2010 17:38 GMT Print this post
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Topics: 13
Replies: 184
Post: #36098
PT: #13/24




Quoted from: soccer4kids, December 06th, 2008 17:23  GMT

With NorCal you play 3, perhaps are "outclassed" significantly in 1 or 2 games, then are reseeded, get more competitive, and by the time quarter finals roll around (in which all teams participate) each team should be extremely competitive with the quarterfinal opponent.  Better for development, it seems, rather than a "winner take all" in the first bracket of play.


Those noncompetitive games can be really detrimental to a team, and if you have to play five-or-six noncompetitive games to get one or two, then things are really messed up.

My club's B team (my daughter is on the A team), got absolutely hammered after driving two hours for a game, then absolutely hammered another team in their bracket after it did the same (one shudders to consider what happened when those two teams met).

The parents concluded that Norcal was a waste of time. One told me, "We can find teams around here to crush us no problem." I think things got better after the seeding round, but that team is no longer playing Norcal after a mutiny by the parents.

The seeding round of Norcal state cup was so lopsided (for our team too, but the bench got a lot of good playing time so we didn't mind as much) that there has to be a better way.
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Sacto Soccer Guy March 05th, 2010 17:54 GMT Print this post
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Replies: 84
Post: #36099
PT: #14/24



The local seeding (1st) round is what needs to be removed or modified in my opinion.  Many of the clubs already play in the same spring and fall leagues.  You had scenarios where teams played twice in the spring, twice in the fall, and then twice in the first 2 Norcal rounds.  That's 6 meetings between teams without tournaments.  Four of those meetings were between September and mid-November.  

One solution would be to knock out teams as you move through the opening rounds and have the premier teams join in later (like the FA Cup).  Does there really need to be a Norcal Cup winner in Bronze 3?  Congratulations, you played 9 extra games to prove you were the 65th best team in the competition.  
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fanoffutbal March 05th, 2010 20:03 GMT Print this post
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Topics: 4
Replies: 159
Post: #36102
PT: #15/24



The difference between playing those extra games is cost and logistics.  CYSA, you pay your registration fee and play.  CYSA arranges the location, the refs, the fields etc.  A no brainer, you show up, you play.

NorCal St cup takes the easy route  You pay to register, then they arrange a schedule, then you're on your own.  
The round-robin style that NorCal has set up is good. Gets the teams seeded correctly, but it can be a logistic nightmare for a team manager/coach going through the preliminary rounds.  Arrange and confirm your dates/times/field.  Then you pay for field, pay for refs.  If you need a turf field and some qualified refs, your a couple hundred bucks/game.  
No skin off their backs if you play more games, your paying for it as you go vs. just once at registration like CYSA.  It all adds up, but worse if your going to see your team demoralized in the first rounds.  

I would like to see CYSA arrange it so the top two teams from every flight goes to the next round.  With the lack of a good job of initial seeding, there are some very good #2 teams that get eliminated way too early.
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fanoffutbal March 15th, 2010 17:31 GMT Print this post
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Topics: 4
Replies: 159
Post: #36274
PT: #16/24



Here is where we are with the olders over the last 3 years.  Drop off in most, but not all age groups.    

NorCal only has more teams registered in the U14B & U15Bs, but has fewer boys teams registered overall.  There are less than 50% of the girls teams in most brackets and no U17G bracket.  Did NorCal combine U17Gs and U18Gs to make a viable bracket of only 12 teams? Also, NorCal also excludes both U19 G & B brackets.  

Looks like clubs that are playing their youngers in NorCal, are keeping their olders in CYSA.  To me this reads that teams are staying in for the points for rankings and going for the National Championships that are only availble U14 and up.


GU14
2008 - 68  
2009 - 63  
2010 - 48
NC - 36

BU14  
2008 - 67  
2009 - 60  
2010 - 47  
NC - 56

GU15  
2008 - 56  
2009 - 49  
2010 - 52  
NC - 24

BU15  
2008 - 68  
2009 - 60
2010 - 46
NC - 48

GU16  
2008 - 44  
2009 - 42  
2010 - 35  
NC - 16

BU16  
2008 - 68  
2009 - 58  
2010 - 47  
NC - 40

GU17
2008 - 34  
2009 - 36  
2010 - 32
NC - 28

BU17  
2008 - 58  
2009 - 63  
2010 - 43  
NC - 0

GU18  
2008 - 26  
2009 - 15
2010 - 24
NC - 12

BU18  
2008 - 32  
2009 - 29  
2010 - 35
NC - 16

GU19  
2008 - 11  
2009 - 19
2010 - 6
NC - 0

BU19  
2008 - 15  
2009 - 11  
2010 - 11
NC - 0
x
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FortheLoveoftheGame March 16th, 2010 01:50 GMT Print this post
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Topics: 12
Replies: 813
Post: #36293
PT: #17/24



I would like to see NorCal automatically seed the 'top 16' teams from the prior year past the first round of seeding which would solve some of the issues of logistics and some of the problems with teams driving 2 hours to get demolished.
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First Touch March 16th, 2010 07:41 GMT Print this post
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Topics: 12
Replies: 341
Post: #36303
PT: #18/24



Fannofutbal,

I think you are dead on....they will ride the best option for each age group as long as they can...and that is smart....as the teams grow up they will certainly shift to the best option period..

As for what I would like to see, there is no investment either way, I will speak boldly and say whatever the best option is for my child at that given time...which is why I think someone else so boldly said that parents will do what the coaches tell them....I think it is true because if you can't trust your coach and behind that the club then who  
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm. Henry David Thoreau
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fanoffutbal March 16th, 2010 17:42 GMT Print this post
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Topics: 4
Replies: 159
Post: #36308
PT: #19/24



While the round robin match play is good for seeding, in some cases, it drags out way too long.  Better than 6 months with preliminary round robin play.   This is a more like a leugue and then some.

It doesnt affect the youngers so much, but it really affects the olders.

For one, the U14 teams are completely different teams now.  Most clubs went through tryouts in Feb and these teams are going into the second round  with completly different teams.
The U15 - U18 teams are going through tryouts in March /April.  During the second rounds/semi's and finals.  Which team do they bring to the big dance?  Of course its the new team!  Old players have moved on already.

Does NorCal really want clubs to go by the NorCal Premier schedule and hold off tryouts?  Is it me? or does that seem selfish?  Teams have to prepare for the next year which pretty much starts now!  Teams can't finish a seasonal year with NorCal St Cup in May, plan tyouts and then put a team together and be ready for US Club regionals in June.  
Or can they?

Well, all this and no points? Does it make sense?  To me CYSA State Cup makes better sense for the olders.  A stable calendar, reasonable price, points and a chance at a National Championship. Now all we need to work on is get to get CYSA to let the top two seeds from each bracket to move on, to make sure teams from loaded brackets are treated fairly.
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First Touch June 22nd, 2010 04:46 GMT Print this post
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Topics: 12
Replies: 341
Post: #38910
PT: #20/24



fanoffutbal,

I don't know.....have they been able to do it? What are your thoughts now that it is June?
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm. Henry David Thoreau
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