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futballinator February 10th, 2013 15:31 GMT Print this post
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Back in the "Bronze Age"--1990,  I received a recruiting call from Wellesley College (Division III soccer Division I academically--small liberal arts college back East) trying to get me to play soccer for them.  I was completely in shock being at best an above average midfielder on an above average team.  I had no intention of playing soccer in college in any real way.  I was however the 2nd in my class academically in high school, and perhaps that is what caught their eye.  

Where I did land for college the "dumb jocks" were anything but.  Most were excited to get the chance to have their sport pave the way into a college that they might not have quite made the cut just academically, but their excellence on the field gave them that slight admissions advantage.   Most of them are now businesspeople, doctors, lawyers, teachers etc...One I can think of was a Boston Bruin for awhile, a rare few occasionally make an NFL team or the Olympics,  but they all still have a top college diploma.

I also spent a fair amount of time with admissions officers in college (part time job) and as a regional alumni interviewer.   I can say with certainty that the best colleges are looking for the whole package, and one of those things in the package is geographic diversity.  Think outside the American West.  It seems like so many of these college committments getting posted on this forum are to the Pacific Coast/Mountain West.    Perhaps it is really hard in this day and age to get a coach to notice your kid 3000 miles away, I don't really know or care that much.  But I do know that a kid from California applying to a school in New England, Viginia, New York etc... is comparatively rare (not as rare if you're applying from North Dakota or Alaska), but still rare.  

Good luck to all of you!
Futballinator
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eastbaysoccer February 10th, 2013 15:48 GMT Print this post
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This message was edited by eastbaysoccer on February 10th, 2013 15:58 GMT

AP vs. regular?  ok now we are talking about the race to no where.  IMO a B in AP is not worth the time and effort.  With the amount of time you will spend studying/struggling you could volunteer and focus in on other areas to make you a more complete applicant.  

Call the admissions office as each school evaluates their applicants differently.  No question the scores and grades need to be competitive.  But everything else does matter especially if it sets you apart form everyone else. Of course every admissions officer is different too!  .........

AS:


anything W the word Olympic.......ODP.....sorry PDP means nothing to the  admissions counselor unless u tie in the word Olympic.

sustained volunteer work with a non profit agency

elected to president or vice p of your high school. or any sustained student government.

note: schools are wise to the padding of their applications with school clubs.



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soccertalker February 10th, 2013 18:26 GMT Print this post
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Thank you everyone, for your thoughts and opinions. I appreciate hearing different points of view.

KeeperDad, again, thank you for your in-depth answer. I will definitely check out the links you mentioned and your blog when I get a chance.
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Hooked002 February 10th, 2013 23:18 GMT Print this post
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Quoted from: futballinator, February 10th, 2013 15:31  GMT
I can say with certainty that the best colleges are looking for the whole package, and one of those things in the package is geographic diversity.

A friend lives in the midwest and has a daughter who is an excellent swimmer (state champion, but not national level).  He and his daughter visited campuses all over the country as part of her recruitment 2 years ago, and his observation to me about about the admissions help and financial aid offers she was getting:  "The further she's willing to go from home, the more she's worth."
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Norcaldad February 11th, 2013 02:27 GMT Print this post
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Great insight! Just what it takes to get into a major college. Will have to check out the Ap vs. non AP classes when she gets there.
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fanofthegame February 11th, 2013 06:08 GMT Print this post
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Quoted from: eastbaysoccer, February 10th, 2013 15:48  GMT
AP vs. regular?  ok now we are talking about the race to no where.  IMO a B in AP is not worth the time and effort.  With the amount of time you will spend studying/struggling you could volunteer and focus in on other areas to make you a more complete applicant.  

Call the admissions office as each school evaluates their applicants differently.  No question the scores and grades need to be competitive.  But everything else does matter especially if it sets you apart form everyone else. Of course every admissions officer is different too!  .........




Gotta disagree here.  Typically the AP course is held in a higher regard by the colleges than the regular course, so a B in an AP is better than an A in a regular course.  For the colleges that evaluate the GPA on a weighted basis, the score will be the same, but the AP course qualifies the student to take the AP exam.  So with a passing grade on the AP exam, college credits are awarded.  This is typically not available to the student that just got an A in the regular course.  An AP course is looked at as a college level course.  The regular course is looked at as a high school level course.  Who would you admit?  The student that has already demonstrated that they can cut it at the college level, or the one who has proven that they can ace a high school level course.  Before answering, consider the caliber of all the students that qualified to take the AP course vs the caliber of all the students in the regular course.
Many of the top colleges won't even consider the student's application if they haven't taken a fair number of AP courses.

If your kid can handle the workload in the AP course, the AP route is almost always the better choice.  An admissions officer I had the opportunity to chat with put it to me this way.  If you are an employer and had the choice of hiring two recent college graduates and had to choose one, and one is a Harvard graduate with a B average and the other is a graduate of a relatively undistinguished state school with an A average, who do you want.  You have about five minutes to make your choice and no other information about the two that distinguishes one from the other.
Seemed pretty clear to me when she put it this way.
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20sDad February 11th, 2013 15:34 GMT Print this post
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Quoted from: eastbaysoccer, February 10th, 2013 15:48  GMT
anything W the word Olympic.......ODP.....sorry PDP means nothing to the  admissions counselor unless u tie in the word Olympic.


Ok, Im going throw out my assumptions here and then what I know for fact.

I assume that the actual application going to the admissions officer is more of a formality and the player has a pretty good understanding of where he/she stands in the process via prior interactions with the prospective coach.  I assume that terms like ODP, PDP, ID2, ECNL, are just technical jargon that mean little to nothing to an admissions officer and its really up to the coach to decipher qualifications.

What I know for FACT is that players will get observed and approached via the PDP process.  

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Toneib February 11th, 2013 16:21 GMT Print this post
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Quoted from: fanofthegame, February 11th, 2013 06:08  GMT

Quoted from: eastbaysoccer, February 10th, 2013 15:48  GMT
AP vs. regular?  ok now we are talking about the race to no where.  IMO a B in AP is not worth the time and effort.  With the amount of time you will spend studying/struggling you could volunteer and focus in on other areas to make you a more complete applicant.  

Call the admissions office as each school evaluates their applicants differently.  No question the scores and grades need to be competitive.  But everything else does matter especially if it sets you apart form everyone else. Of course every admissions officer is different too!  .........




Gotta disagree here.  Typically the AP course is held in a higher regard by the colleges than the regular course, so a B in an AP is better than an A in a regular course.  For the colleges that evaluate the GPA on a weighted basis, the score will be the same, but the AP course qualifies the student to take the AP exam.  So with a passing grade on the AP exam, college credits are awarded.  This is typically not available to the student that just got an A in the regular course.  An AP course is looked at as a college level course.  The regular course is looked at as a high school level course.  Who would you admit?  The student that has already demonstrated that they can cut it at the college level, or the one who has proven that they can ace a high school level course.  Before answering, consider the caliber of all the students that qualified to take the AP course vs the caliber of all the students in the regular course.
Many of the top colleges won't even consider the student's application if they haven't taken a fair number of AP courses.

If your kid can handle the workload in the AP course, the AP route is almost always the better choice.  An admissions officer I had the opportunity to chat with put it to me this way.  If you are an employer and had the choice of hiring two recent college graduates and had to choose one, and one is a Harvard graduate with a B average and the other is a graduate of a relatively undistinguished state school with an A average, who do you want.  You have about five minutes to make your choice and no other information about the two that distinguishes one from the other.
Seemed pretty clear to me when she put it this way.


Wise words! Thank you FOTG!  

Another very important reason to take (and pass) the AP exams, it will save you money! My DD, before AP testing in the spring, has already earned 9 college credit hours! That's 9 college credit hours I won't have to pay! And for those with the $30,000 ECNL price tag looming over their heads for the U14 - U18 years, every penny helps!
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soccerstar14 February 11th, 2013 19:28 GMT Print this post
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Quoted from: fanofthegame, February 08th, 2013 08:06  GMT
I am very interested to hear about the class of 2014.  Who has committed where?  Scholarship promises or not?

Capital Athletic Soccer Association Boca '95
2013 - 1 Utah Valley
2014 2 UC Irvine, Cal Poly

ss14
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92admin February 12th, 2013 06:53 GMT Print this post
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This message was edited by 92admin on February 12th, 2013 07:03 GMT


Quoted from: soccertalker, February 09th, 2013 20:33  GMT
How do colleges view AP classes? Is it better to get a B in AP or an A in regular? Thank you KeeperDad, for all the relevant and thorough information you've put out here on the forum regarding recruiting. Sometimes the process seems very overwhelming.  


Depends where you want to go I'm sure, but schools like Stanford want you to take APs. It makes it tough for them to get you through Admissions if you haven't established a challenging academic repertoire. Your best bet: Take APs and get an A in them! Easier said than done, I realize, but you really have to establish yourself as a top achiever to make it into a top academic school even with a strong soccer pedigree.

I know the Stanford experience because my daughter plays for them. Reading the achievements of this year's recruiting class reminds me of how hard she had to work to get recruited there. I'm sure the stories are all over the map. Cal, SCU, UCLA, USC and other California schools all have different standards. You'd be surprised how many of these schools, despite impressive academic reputations, make huge exceptions for top athletes.

That said, getting excellent grades and taking lots of APs, coupled with building a strong soccer pedigree (i.e., being national or at least regional pool and showing well at showcases and other events), widens your choices immensely and establishes your value in a market of coaches who want your services. Challenge yourself and do well in school. It pays big dividends in the recruiting process!

Hooked002: I've heard of players decommitting but never a school doing so. The verbal agreement 99 times out of a 100 seems to be golden, at least from the school's side in my experience and that of my daughter's former teammates. The only time I've seen a verbal commitment not honored on the school's side was when the player's academic performance dropped significantly or did not rise to expectations. I'd be curious to hear stories to the contrary.

KeeperDad: Write that book! I think it's a resource parents would flock to. Youth Soccer is big time and I'm sure you would have a lot of readers.
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