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» Youth Soccer Discussions » General Discussions » Soccer clubs in El Dorado Hills << Older Newer >>
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mtnlady February 03rd, 2013 20:13 GMT Print this post
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This message was edited by mtnlady on February 03rd, 2013 20:20 GMT

That's good stuff. I've read the 3-4-3 blog before but didn't see this post. Of course you need the field space to pull this off. That and quite a few coaches/trainers need to be working together. With the advent of some of the comp teams using one coach for 3-4+ teams the coach to player ratio is heading decisively the wrong way. You can see the number of coaches these folks pull in to allow for interlapping of positional training.

That and I think you need to catch the players very, very young to develop their technical game (1st touch, dribbling, passing, air skills etc.) so you can devote more time at a younger age to the tactical side. Hard to teach tactical if the basic foundational skills aren't there yet. This issue is compounded for the clubs/teams that pull their player pool almost exclusively out of the rec population and have to devout a huge amount of time to developing these basic skill sets. If you can pull in - for the most part - your player pool from more technically trained areas I think that would really help speed up this type of training plan. I could easily see a Mustang, San Juan type club being able to pull this off.

The 3-4-3 blog ties in with what I'm also hearing from the Spanish coaching community (You can add Holland to that list of 'teach the game early' list as well with a huge emphasis on SSG). That being that they teach the game itself very, very early while here in the States we focus at length on the technical side and tend to leave the tactical until the middle years (12-u15). I think part of this is due to the focus of many of the trainers who are many times paid to teach the technical side of the game thus they get at teaching dribbling 101 and so forth.

Whole blog though gives some very interesting ideas though. Not sure how to pull it off though without:
1. A large number of quality kids technically trained/skilled at a younger age.
2. Field space
3. A goodly number of highly qualified trainers/coaches working together (lower coach to player ratios than many of the clugs now enjoy)
4. Changing the paradigm of how many of the clubs/trainers approach the 'business' of player development
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mtnlady February 03rd, 2013 20:29 GMT Print this post
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This message was edited by mtnlady on February 03rd, 2013 20:33 GMT

What I'm referring to as being 'unique' to the 3-4-3 blog on training is the sophistication at the younger ages (u10-u11s) in which they are training the positional groups. I think the vast majority of teams/clubs do some sort of postional group training so that in and of itself is not unique. That and their commitment to interlinking the positional groups together in their training at this early age. Again I think most teams/clubs do this to some degree but many times it can be latter in the players development. That and the club/teams need to get enough coaches/trainers together to pull it off.
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mtnlady February 03rd, 2013 21:01 GMT Print this post
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This message was edited by mtnlady on February 03rd, 2013 21:07 GMT

The last thing you need i think to pull this off is numbers. By that I mean enough players that you can link say mids and forwards together while having enough defenders (or older players/coaches/trainers) go up against them to apply some sort of pressure (after you've gotten through the shadow 'walk through' phase of the training). You can see that the 3-4-3 group accomplishes the numbers by joining multiple teams and age groups together to get the numbers they need to make the positional group and linking positional group training sessions work.

We're contemplating the same kind of thing up our way by joining together with another very good Gold team in our area to create the numbers to start doing more 'realistic' training in that we now have the quality and numbers to go beyond the heavy use of SSGs in our training sessions. There are challenges (different systems of play? enough field space? different clubs etc.) but you have to think outside of the box to make these things work sometimes. Much easier if your club has multiple quality teams in the same age group and has adequate field space to allow the numbers to work together in a realistic field setting.

And of course the quality and quantity of coaches/trainers to handle the break out groups. Planning is also key as that many players working together you need a well thought out training plan so the numbers don't create more 'standing around'. You need to keep things moving, maximize touches, and get to 'game speed' and game pressure as quickly as possible.
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koolaid February 03rd, 2013 21:27 GMT Print this post
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Interesting. You've got my wheels turning. My 1 experience with a large club had stations where groups would go through. Each with a different concept. I thought this academy style was pretty cool then. Unfortunately our team was pretty lost during games. They assured us they would get this team training when they get older.  
Fast forward to my 2d experience, this time with a small club. Time set aside for technical then immediately put into a situation to use it. Then on to team concepts hopefully utilizing the new skill (not always the same, just an example).
Just a theory but in order to have mass amounts of teams practicing at the same time have we been forced to use the current approach? Then a small club is able to focus on "the game" because they don't have the space restrictions? Obviously I haven't seen trainings for all the bigger clubs but this was definitely the case for one of the local bigs. Dunno just saying. I'm sure both are effective and there are lots of ways to play/teach soccer but I've found my latter experience to be more productive and fun for my kid.  
koolaid
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mtnlady February 03rd, 2013 22:25 GMT Print this post
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This message was edited by mtnlady on February 03rd, 2013 22:32 GMT

I think what the 3-4-3 blog is referring to goes way beyond stations and isolated positional group training?  What I read into what they are referring to I believe is advanced positional group training and situational awareness that they have constructed by doing:

a) working the individual positional group (nothing new there)
b) then connecting the positional group with another positional group to work on the 'linking' between the two groups AND having enough players to add pressure and allow for transitional play (attack to defense, defense to attack)

Most of these, especially 'a' probably every team does however what struck me was  
a) how young they were beginning to work on advanced concepts of field awareness.
b) how built into their club practice structure this was in that they seem to be routinly marrying up the various 'like kind' teams together to achieve the numbers they need to make a lot of this work
c) how many coaches/trainers they had dedicated to the process to make it work, keep the various groups working at a high rate (no standing around) etc. They are probably working at a fairly low coach to player ratio?

On another thread someone mentioned a Boca coach being given five teams to train (!). So in this case he has the numbers and (hopefully) the field space. However it's only him and two inexperienced assistants (college players with no coaching experience) so pulling off something like this without a ton of players standing around would be difficult to pull off (remember we're not talking about technical skill training here where it's easier to run slews of stations. These kids are working positional group training using pre-set conditions and repeating the process over and over again. Stuff like this needs an experienced coaches hands on guidance (it's not a SSG).

On the flip side you bring together 2-3 teams each with their own coaching staffs (e.g. the 3-4-3 blog look at the number of coaches they list) and now you have the kind of player to coach ratios you are looking for to handle quality break out positional group training and to the linking of the positional groups together.

As for creating the repetitive scenarios they call it "Staged Positional Training". I've also referred to this is "Situational Training" usually taught in a progressive fashion (which it looks like they do). By that I mean shadow training (no defenders), overload (more attackers to defenders) and then at full game speed/pressure (even numbers) or even overload numbers the other way if you want to increase the pressure.

I'm deffinetly mulling some of this over however there are challenges and preconditions to making this work that would need to be overcome to fully implement it.
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playthegame February 07th, 2013 04:28 GMT Print this post
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Thank you all for such an interesting discussion. It gives us a lot to think about. We will for sure be going to the EDHSC and Ethos tryouts. While I was hoping for less of a drive some of the other clubs sound very good and worthwhile to be sure. I do have a question. After all of the drama and upheaval in the past, is EDUSA still around and are they fielding teams in this age bracket? Their website hasn't been updated in ages so I assumed they were no longer doing much.
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playthegame February 08th, 2013 16:48 GMT Print this post
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Never mind the above question. I had thought that EDUSA was history but one of the moms at soccer camp insisted that they were still around. I think she may have been confusing them with EDHSC. I think we are going to be very busy during try-out weekend! It does seem like most of the best clubs are out of our EDH immediate area. Thanks again!
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jayhump February 11th, 2013 00:04 GMT Print this post
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American River FC is an options to.  They play Norcal through Fair Oaks and have some competitive teams at all ages.

New coach coming in at the U12 girls, Club uses Folsom Field for Practice and you MAY need to travel out side some times.  Home field Carnegie, in Orangevale.  The U11's did well, they ended winning the Red, Gold 3 Division beating out Newark Elite Xtreme 4-3 today.  Viable choice.....

www.americanriverfc.com

Who             Date    Day  Time  Field
U12-14 Girls  Feb 23rd  Sat  11:00-12:30  Kemp 2
                       Feb 24th  Sun  1:45-3:15          Kemp 2
                       Feb 26th  Tue  7:00-8:00    Livermore
                       Feb 28th  Thu  Supplemental
U12-14 Boys  Feb 23rd  Sat  9:00-10:30  Kemp 2
                       Feb 24th  Sun  11:15-12:45  Kemp 2
                       Feb 26th  Tue  6:00-7:00   Livermore
                       Feb 28th  Thu  Supplemental
http://sacsoccer.13.forumer.com
WWW: http://sacsoccer.13.forumer.com/PM: jayhump
soccerdad12 January 08th, 2015 19:37 GMT Print this post
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PT: #39/39



I have not had a good experience at all with EDHSC.  They seem to really not offer much in terms of training, yet claim to be a 'competitive' club...which they are far from.  I felt the Directors and Trainers were rude and not approachable. Would not return, even as a longtime EDH resident.
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